‘Andor’s Kyle Soller Breaks Down Syril Karn’s Most Brutal Season 2 Moment (Exclusive)

Editor’s Note: The following interview contains spoilers for Andor Season 2, Episode 8.

Since his introduction in Andor Season 1, Syril Karn (Kyle Soller) has been a fan-favorite with fans of Tony Gilroy‘s critically acclaimed Star Wars series. While Syril is a relatively deplorable character — given his blind allegiance to the Empire — Syril’s popularity isn’t much of a surprise when you factor in how brilliant Soller is in the role. This week’s arc, set in 2 BBY, brings an end to Syril’s story in quite a dramatic fashion. Each arc has been marked by the death of a main character, and this arc breaks with tradition by killing a character at the mid-point. Ahead of the trio of episodes dropping on Disney+, I had the chance to catch up with Kyle Soller to discuss Syril’s fate at the hands of Carro Rylanz (Richard Sammel) and so much more.

In our lengthy conversation, we unpacked Syril’s violence throughout the episode, first with Rylanz, then Dedra (Denise Gough), and finally Cassian (Diego Luna); what his relationship was like with Rylanz and Enza (Alaïs Lawson); Syril and Dedra’s final moments, the conversations he had with Gilroy and the series’ costume designer, Michael Wilkinson, and hair and make up designer, Emma Scott, about Syril’s evolution on Ghorman, and what might have happened to Syril if he hadn’t seen Cassian again.

COLLIDER: When did you first learn about Syril’s fate, and how did that kind of inform your journey this season?

KYLE SOLLER: I found out in between Season 1 and 2. Tony (Gilroy) gave me a call to outline Syril’s arc and Dedra’s arc. Tony has always been very good at sharing. He’s a big proponent of the more you tell your actors and your crew, the better results you get, and I think that’s really amazing. So, he walked me through it. I think he knew from the very beginning, probably because Tony is so forensically detailed in how he approaches story and the script, but especially because he knew they were tackling five years, and he knows where it’s going with Rogue One, and he also knows where it’s going with the original trilogy. He’s setting it all up. But he waited to tell me. Which is clever and good, rather than thinking about it from the very beginning. So he tells everybody everything, but he knows when to tell everybody everything.

That’s smart.

SOLLER: It was super smart. And then I just got to digest it because I just thought, “Oh, wow, it’s so great that Syril gets to play being a spy,” which is something he’s jumped into since being a kid. He doesn’t know he’s being used and abused, and then ultimately gets to meet the ultimate object of his obsession with power and fame and glory, and has a fight that doesn’t even get killed by him. He gets killed by someone that Syril betrayed. It is genius, the web that was woven that Syril didn’t even realize he was a part of, and the lives he was affecting, and ultimately, the crushing realization that he is not as great and powerful as he thought he was.

And that he seems like a character that will essentially be forgotten by the history books because he’s completely off the record. He’s not going to be remembered.

SOLLER: Exactly. So, this is the whole big thing, like, “Tony, you’re so fucking good, man.” Because I was thinking from the very beginning of Hannah Arendt and the “banality of evil.” He’s just an everyman, and it’s perfectly scripted that way. He’s just a bureaucrat, desk job dude. The way his journey is constructed with his desire to be known, and as equal as that is, is the crushing defeat of anonymity, which is revealed in Cassian going, “Who are you?” He’s like, “How the fuck could you not know who I am? I’ve dreamt about catching you and rising to glory ever since I’ve known about you, and you don’t even know who I am?” It ultimately captures the many, many, many, many people in history who’ve been forgotten, people who actually did much greater things than Syril, who have been forgotten and never get a second look.

Not even a footnote.

SOLLER: Exactly.

Talking about these conversations ahead of the season, I love looking at costumes and hair and makeup, and I love the transformation we see in Syril when he starts working on Ghorman. I’m curious what those conversations were like with the costume department, with HMU, about how he seems a little bit looser. His hair is a little bit curlier. He’s a little bit more fitting in with the atmosphere that he’s now in.

SOLLER: Well, Michael Wilkinson, who’s doing the costumes, and Emma Scott, who’s hair and makeup, are genuine geniuses. They operated the same way as Tony because that ethic of work comes from the top down. So, they were very inclusive. They were like, “This is kind of what we’re thinking, but what do you think?” And they knew how my hair goes when it’s longer and stuff, so they were like, “Well, let’s try to maybe use that because we can tell the story with the hair, and we can tell the story with the costume, that you’re starting to blend in.” I was seeing it always as Syril’s armor is starting to have chinks in it. He’s starting to open up to those around him. As he’s getting in deeper, he’s blending in more and becoming one of the Ghormans, actually, more in soul than in just appearance.

I always find it interesting, as well, that there was a juxtaposition between him getting looser in his appearance and a sort of anger building within him, or at least within him that was kind of always there. I thought that was super clever of them, too. It’s like, “We’re going to allow you this kind of expansion, which is also going to allow your movement to then ultimately come out in the fight as super expressive and super free,” because he’d been so contained and buttoned up and zipped up to within an inch of his life.

Could Syril Karn Have Joined the Rebellion?

I think that’s really interesting, and it works so well with the visual aspect of the storytelling. I really love that. One of the prevalent theories from fans in the lead-up to this week is that they think that Syril is going to have a heel turn, and he’s going to join the Rebellion. It’s so interesting. I know everyone’s gonna be so devastated tonight. That is not the case! But do you think there is a path where, had he not seen Cassian at such a pivotal moment, that he could have had a shift in opinion? Or is he still so rooted in this moral belief that he’s doing the right thing? That’s a heavy question.

SOLLER: It’s going to take me half an hour to answer, actually. It’s a good question. It’s a really good question. Syril is this romantic, obsessive, fantasist. He drank the Kool-Aid since he was a kid. He was completely indoctrinated through propaganda, through living on Coruscant, through playing with his little stormtrooper action figures, through having such a controlling home environment. It completely prepped him to join the Empire. The revelations that happened to him in the last 10 minutes of his life are so extreme. It’s like leaving a cult. Somebody’s telling you that this is just like a hologram that you live in. None of it’s real. You live in the matrix. I think it’s so earth-shattering to him to have betrayed someone like Rylanz, who I always saw that he got kind of closer to than you sort of realized. The betrayal of Dedra, which is the first person he’s ever had a romantic connection with, if you can call it that, and seeing what the Empire is capable of, and being lied to, I ultimately see that as, like, “Oh, wow. What beautiful morals, actually, does Syril have?” Because he sees the cost of having betrayed someone, he’s ultimately betrayed by someone he loves, and then this structure of the Empire has lied to and betrayed him. And he thought he loved that. I think he would have just wandered off somewhere.

He would’ve just been like, “I don’t want to be part of any of this!”

SOLLER: I think so. I think it was so cutting to him that he wouldn’t know how to move forward on either side. Because also, I think, within this whole horrible massacre of Ghorman, and he’s also gotten a front line seat to how the Ghorman front work, actually, it’s kind of fucked up on both sides. They’re all fighting for what they believe in, but they’re all using tactics that actually, maybe aren’t awesome at the end of the day. One is definitely worse than the other. But I don’t know, man. I don’t know if he would have had a redemptive arc.

I mean, hey, leaving a cult is redemption in itself.

SOLLER: Yeah. There you go. Go find a mountain to sit on and drink some blue milk. You’ll be fine.

There you go.

I love that you mentioned Rylanz because I think it’s one of the things that we lose in the time jumps. There’s clearly a connection that he forms with the Ghorman front, more so than we see. We see it in Episode 7 when Enza slaps him in the face. What do you think’s going on in the in-between of Episodes 6 and 7, where him asking for more information is the tipping point for her? I feel like — and maybe this is my perception of you talking about Rylanz — he’s seeing how a good family unit functions firsthand.

SOLLER: He’s getting really stuck in. He’s in quite deep. How many years has it been? It’s probably two years by that point since he’s been there, and that’s a really long time because when you’re working in a subversive unit like that, it’s not like a hobby — that sort of becomes your life. We also toyed with the fact that he was not, in a way, holding up his end of the bargain in being as giving of information as they want him to be.

Ultimately, in that slap, it kind of tells you all you need to know is that he’s in too deep, and he’s still trying to play the game, and she’s just like, “You’re an idiot. This isn’t a game anymore.” So, yeah, I thought he was tightly woven into that family unit, so he could have been starting to see Rylanz as a father figure he never had. And there’s a tension with Enza there. It’s like, if Dedra wasn’t in the picture, could this have been something? Is there something here? There’s just a lot of tension in those relationships because he’s not fully releasing into it, and I think they can feel that.

Syril Karn Completely Unravels in His Final Moments Alive

That was something I picked up on as well. I was like, “Is there a tension there that had things been different, had Dedra not been there…?” So I’m glad I wasn’t wrong about reading into that a little bit. Talking about Dedra, that moment in Episode 7 is so much when he starts choking her out. Talk about leading up to that scene and filming that moment. There’s a lot of emotion there for Syril, and it’s kind of the first time we’ve seen him break free and feel true anger in a real, violent way.

SOLLER: Well, I’d always thought and tried to build into Syril this deep repression of true emotions. It’s just come after this scene with Rylanz, when Rylanz confronts him, and Syril gets spooked. You see him actually throw him to the floor. So, that’s sort of the first beat, in a way, of the scene with Dedra, because I think he surprises himself by throwing this dude who he’s worked so closely with, who he admires, really, at the end of the day, to the floor amongst his people. Then he goes in to Dedra, and it’s like he knows, I think, by that point, because his father figure has told him, “You’re living a lie, dude.”

Working on that scene was, I mean, can I say kind of great? It sounds weird, but Denise (Gough) and I work really well together. I knew her work before we started, and she knew mine, and we work in a very similar way. We had some rehearsals with Janus Metz before we started filming, trying to get the right temperature, and I was wondering, I was like, “How physical is he really going to get with her?” We ultimately ended up with what’s the kind of most shocking thing. Syril is right at the end, and people will start to act really strange when they are cornered and afraid, and when they maybe know their death is coming psychically. But ultimately, that is the deepest heartbreak for him because Dedra is not just Dedra, she’s like the Empire, as well. He’s combined these obsessions of power and fame within the Empire into Dedra and her station, and what she’s capable of, while also opening himself up to intimacy, and opening himself up to intimacy is ultimately his downfall, because he’s let someone in who was able to manipulate and abuse him. He knows he’s done that to himself. So, him choking out Dedra is not really him choking out Dedra…

He’s choking the Empire. (Laughs)

SOLLER: He’s choking himself and the Empire, and his decisions and him then attacking Cassian. He’s not really attacking Cassian. He’s attacking himself and what the Empire has done to him. Yes, Cassian, too, but he’s blinded by that. But the Dedra thing was really powerful because it’s almost like he’s on some shamanic sort of confrontation with an archetypal demon at that point with her. She’s representative of something else so much larger. He’s trying to get an answer out of this dark being, and then he can step away because he’s not a killer at the end of the day. So, it was great to dive into all of that complexity in that scene because it was just so much coming up.

I think the narrative beats work so well, too, because when you get to Cassian, Cassian is essentially the reason why he’s been set on this course. He’s finally confronting this thing that essentially caused his unraveling. The fight is so well-choreographed. I freeze-framed as I watched to try to see if I could catch where it switched between stunt double and the two of you, and it does seem like there’s a lot of you and Diego (Luna) in that moment. Can you talk a little bit about the stunt choreography?

SOLLER: Marc Mailley, the stunt coordinator, and the coordinators are incredible. We approached it from a really psychological and emotional frame. I think the only time they used stunt guys were for the… No, I think I did the explosion. I think was, like, twice. One shot of the explosion at the window and the rugby tackle at the very beginning, and we did the rest. I’m sure I’m wrong in that because it was a very intense two-week period. We filmed the fight over three days, right at the end of doing all the riot and massacre stuff. I’m sure they stepped in here and there, and they’re incredible. I love them. But yeah, it was so amazing.

We had a really intricate fight. We had to kind of shave it down here and there. Marc was saying that he wanted it to look like Cassian was fighting this feral cat that you just can’t get off your back. It just keeps coming back. I was like, “Oh, yeah, it’s perfect.” Because in his revelations that just happened to him, this is like a release of primal energy just coursing through him that he’s just not even himself. On any other day, Cassian would beat the shit out of Syril, 100%. But for whatever reason, everything that just happened to Syril has given him a superpower. It was really intense, and very cold for the end of January. It was great because, as you said, Syril has created a totem out of Cassian, and every section of the totem pole is filled with different emotions of dishonor and shame and obsession and fame and power. He’s been holding the totem and adding to it every single year since he ever found out about Cassian. It’s just perfect that he just shows up right at that moment, because he’s fighting everything in that moment, not just Cassian.

Did Syril Karn Meet K-2SO?

I’m curious about another moment. It’s when Syril gets taken into the side room, and all of the KX units are in there. The one that looks at him, is it supposed to be K-2SO, or is it just one of the random KX units?

SOLLER: I think it’s one of the randoms, but I could be wrong. I don’t think I’m the right person to ask. I remember reading in the script — whether they changed it and I didn’t read it again, I don’t remember — “he looks at the KX units and one stares back.” Because I don’t think we can track K-2’s journey through the riot, to then where K-2SO lands. See what I mean? But I wondered, and I pretended it was K-2SO, of course. (Laughs)

That’s what I thought! Of course. With the year jumps and how much of the story is condensed, there are a lot of story beats out there that could, somewhere down the line — probably in a book or a comic book — get explored. What parts of Syril’s journey do you wish that you had gotten more time with?

SOLLER: I would love to have seen the deeper exploration of Ghorman. You kind of get dropped right into the most crucial point of all of that. I don’t think I need to see the awkwardness of him trying to move in with Dedra, although maybe that would have been fun.

It would have made for a good sitcom episode.

SOLLER: Exactly. Like trying to move a sofa into their weird apartment.

That’s honestly something I wondered, like how much of his stuff actually got moved into the apartment, or was Dedra like, “No. My apartment’s set up. That’s nice. You can have one drawer.”

SOLLER: Yeah, I think it’s that. We both know it’s that. But I also think Syril doesn’t have any stuff. I don’t think he has anything but clothes, and even that he doesn’t have loads. He’s got a very particular look.

How fleshed out was his apartment set on Ghorman? Because I know we really only see that front entrance where he has the spider set up. Was there a whole set behind that as well?

SOLLER: Yeah. There was a living room area. I don’t think they had added on the bedroom, but like with most of these sets that they built, they were incredible sets. They build more than you could ever need to film on. The life is there. If you ever needed to go around the corner and do something, you could. They think of everything.

I love how in-depth Andor has been. Every detail is so perfectly executed across each episode. Every line gets drawn into the upcoming arcs. It’s so well done. For you, as a performer, what has Andor and Syril taught you?

SOLLER: Man, I suppose as a story, Andor has taught me the vital importance of community and using your voice and taking a risk to do what you think is right. I think Syril’s given me some really good coats. I really enjoyed his journey. It’s a coming-of-age journey that he has, and even though he was a late bloomer, ultimately, it’s someone who is learning to see truth for what it really is, ultimately to have proper discernment, stand in his power, and then say goodbye before you get too boring.

It’s been such a gift. It’s really been a gift, this part and this job, because it’s also opened up an entire community of the Star Wars family. We’re so beautifully protective and supportive of it. God, I could go on about what Tony Gilroy and Diego have accomplished with this. I just think it’s moving Star Wars in a new direction. Not that everything has to be like Andor from now on, and it shouldn’t be, but it’s opened up a conversation of what can it achieve? Can it be as intricate and adult, and explorative of our history and our own current times? Or as powerful and hard-hitting and exciting and ultimately heartbreaking? This is about love and sacrifice. It’s given all of that.

The first nine episodes of Andor Season 2 are streaming now on Disney+.